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Re: URGENT NAv6TF Chair Request : RE: [moonv6] RE: Vista DNS behavior - Re: [nav6tf] IPv6 news - we ekly summary

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From: JF Tremblay (jean-francois.tremblay@hexago.com)
Date: 09/18/06


moonv6 post from JF Tremblay <jean-francois.tremblay@hexago.com> If anyone is interested to discuss Vista and IPv6, there's a forum on this topic on go6.net (empty for now): <http://forum.go6.net/>. Feel free to discuss...

JF
<go.6 admin hat>

--On Monday, September 18, 2006 6:45 AM -0400 "Bound, Jim" <Jim.Bound@hp.com> wrote:

> moonv6 post from "Bound, Jim" <Jim.Bound@hp.com>
> All Members,
>
> I want the rhetoric regarding Vista to stop NOW and refences to any
> testing of any specific vendor too. All vendors are affected by this
> technology discussion. I encourage continuing this discussion but I
> must now ask as Chair to stop now referencing Microsoft Vista it is
> totally of out line at this point. It was fine initially and Chris
> did a nice thing responding. I could do this with every vendors
> implementation on this list, and it is unfair for such NAv6TF
> discussion for Vista. Please keep the discussion going but reference
> technology and architecture and needs of IPv6 and get off of
> identifying vendors.
>
> I assume my mail here is crystal clear? If you don't get it send me
> private mail but I am traveling so cannot respond as usual but I will.
>
> We do NOT DISCUSS VENDORS or any specific IMPLEMENTATION in the NAv6TF
> other a minimal discussion for support and understanding the market
> implementation of IPv6. Unless of course the implementation is public
> domain code base.
>
> Thank You for your support and understanding,
> /jim
> Chair NAv6TF www.nav6tf.org
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com
>> [mailto:owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com] On Behalf Of Bill Cerveny
>> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:21 AM
>> To: Christopher L. Morrow; McGuerty, Jay S.
>> Cc: Chris Mitchell; Durand, Alain; Dave Green; Joya Subudhi;
>> nav6tf@ipv6forum.com; moonv6@iol.unh.edu
>> Subject: RE: [moonv6] RE: Vista DNS behavior - Re: [nav6tf]
>> IPv6 news - we ekly summary
>>
>> I'm personally less concerned about the additional DNS
>> request as I am about what assumptions Vista is making about
>> its connectivity (although it is a good thing to clarify that
>> DNS servers won't melt down ;-) ). In my opinion, Vista
>> shouldn't be asking for AAAA records when it has no
>> expectation it will reach the host via IPv6 or ask for an A
>> record when it has no expectation it will reach the host via
>> IPv4. From what Chris Mitchell at Microsoft has said and Dave
>> Green has verified (thanks Chris and Dave!), this appears to
>> be the case, except perhaps for some behavior associated with Teredo.
>>
>> To take this a step further, what happens when a Vista box is
>> connected to an isolated IPv6 network, although it is
>> connected to the global IPv4 Internet, and can retrieve AAAA
>> records on DNS for hosts beyond it's isolated IPv6 network
>> (but reachable via IPv4)? For example if I entered
>> "www.kame.net" in IE or Firefox from the isolated IPv6
>> network with global IPv4 connectivity and got a AAAA record
>> for www.kame.net. With Windows XP, I could experience a
>> noticeable period where the operating system is figuring out
>> that it can't reach www.kame.net via IPv6 and finally decides
>> to reach it via IPv4.
>>
>> This scenario will certainly happen as large enterprise IPv6
>> roll-outs occur and for whatever reason, there are intended
>> or unintended pockets of isolated IPv6 connectivity within
>> the enterprise. Whenever this behavior occurred with Windows
>> XP, the rational administrator response was to disable IPv6
>> on the computer (and the problem did go away). For
>> IPv6 to be successful on Vista, the operating system must
>> recover quickly enough that the user doesn't notice any
>> discernible delay. The user or network administrator
>> shouldn't assume that a fix to a network problem is to "turn
>> off" IPv6 on Vista.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 02:05:16 +0000 (GMT), "Christopher L. Morrow"
>> <christopher.morrow@verizonbusiness.com> said:
>> > On Sun, 17 Sep 2006, McGuerty, Jay S. wrote:
>> >
>> > > moonv6 post from "McGuerty, Jay S."
>> <JAY.S.MCGUERTY@saic.com> Folks,
>> > > In our testing of VISTA we do see continual period
>> attempts by VISTA to
>> > > find the default Teredo server (and others). As of
>> VISTA build 5436 we
>> > > simply shut
>> > > down the Teredo interface and that stops it. We do see
>> the AAAA record
>> >
>> > I assume your test host wasn't in a domain? (default
>> behaviour was to
>> > NOT do terado if there was a domain association)
>> >
>> > > lookup
>> > > first (I personally think it is a great idea) like many
>> of the "sky
>> > > is falling IPv6 alarms"
>> > > it seems to me this much to do about nothing. We
>> super sized our DNS
>> > > server
>> > > knowing that more of our dual stack environment was going
>> to depend
>> > > on DNS resolution anyway.
>> >
>> > you super sizing your DNS server means something completely
>> different
>> > to Alain or me... :( There is a concern, and a valid one I
>> > believe, though one we'll have to get used it seems.
>> >
>> > >
>> > > v/r
>> > >
>> > > Jay
>> > >
>> > > _____
>> > >
>> > > From: owner-moonv6@io.iol.unh.edu on behalf of Chris Mitchell
>> > > Sent: Sat 9/16/2006 10:58 AM
>> > > To: Durand, Alain; green@commandinformation.com;
>> bill@wjcerveny.com;
>> > > joya@subudhi.com; nav6tf@ipv6forum.com; moonv6@iol.unh.edu
>> > > Subject: RE: [moonv6] RE: Vista DNS behavior - Re: [nav6tf] IPv6
>> > > news - weekly summary
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > moonv6 post from Chris Mitchell <cmitch@windows.microsoft.com>
>> > > Alain,
>> > >
>> > > The current design in Vista is that Teredo addresses will not be
>> > > registered in DNS and will not cause AAAA record look ups
>> unless an
>> > > application is actively using IPv6 via the Teredo tunnel.
>> In other
>> > > words, "out-of-the-box" Vista systems that are not actively
>> > > using Teredo will NOT cause AAAA record look ups.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Chris Mitchell
>> > > Group Program Manager
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Durand, Alain [mailto:Alain_Durand@cable.comcast.com
>> > > <mailto:Alain_Durand@cable.comcast.com> ]
>> > > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 3:00 AM
>> > > To: Chris Mitchell; green@commandinformation.com;
>> > > bill@wjcerveny.com; joya@subudhi.com; nav6tf@ipv6forum.com;
>> > > moonv6@iol.unh.edu
>> > > Subject: Re: [moonv6] RE: Vista DNS behavior - Re: [nav6tf] IPv6
>> > > news - weekly summary
>> > >
>> > > Could someone clarify how this reconcile with teredo
>> automatic IPv6
>> > > connectivity establishment?
>> > >
>> > > - Alain.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: owner-moonv6@io.iol.unh.edu <owner-moonv6@io.iol.unh.edu>
>> > > To: Dave Green <green@commandinformation.com>; Bill Cerveny
>> > > <bill@wjcerveny.com>; Joya Subudhi <joya@subudhi.com>;
>> > > nav6tf@ipv6forum.com <nav6tf@ipv6forum.com>; moonv6@iol.unh.edu
>> > > <moonv6@iol.unh.edu>
>> > > Sent: Thu Sep 14 18:55:43 2006
>> > > Subject: [moonv6] RE: Vista DNS behavior - Re: [nav6tf]
>> IPv6 news -
>> > > weekly summary
>> > >
>> > > moonv6 post from Chris Mitchell <cmitch@windows.microsoft.com>
>> > > Thanks for testing and confirming this Dave. This is
>> exactly what
>> > > we specified as the expected behavior. If anyone has
>> feedback that
>> > > this isn't right please let us know.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Chris Mitchell
>> > > Group Program Manager
>> > > Windows Networking and Devices
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com
>> [mailto:owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com
>> > > <mailto:owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com> ] On Behalf Of Dave Green
>> > > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 2:44 PM
>> > > To: Bill Cerveny; Joya Subudhi; nav6tf@ipv6forum.com;
>> > > moonv6@iol.unh.edu
>> > > Subject: RE: Vista DNS behavior - Re: [nav6tf] IPv6 news -
>> > > weekly summary
>> > >
>> > > Bill, et all:
>> > >
>> > > We've been aware of this behavior on XP, but had not
>> checked for it
>> > > in Vista. Since we run a fully dual-stacked environment this
>> > > behavior wasn't causing us a problem. However, if it was still
>> > > present it could cause long lags on IPv4-only environments so I
>> > > tested this today on the Vista Pre-RC1 Build 5536 we are pilot
>> > > testing for production. To test this, I used an
>> IPv6-capable packet
>> > > sniffer to capture and decode all DNS queries with Vista
>> on our main
>> > > dual stacked environment, and on the v4-only and IPv6-only
>> > > environments we run for application testing. This is what I
>> > > found:
>> > >
>> > > -On a native IPv6-dual-stacked connection Vista Generated 2 DNS
>> > > requests for each record and I was able to reach our
>> IPv6-only content sites.
>> > >
>> > > -In our IPv4-only test environment, I only saw requests for A
>> > > records and requests to our IPv6 only content sites failed.
>> > >
>> > > -In our IPv6-only environment, I only saw requests for
>> AAAA records
>> > > and our IPv6 content sites worked fine.
>> > >
>> > > I believe that this behavior is exactly what we wanted
>> Vista to do.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > David Green | VP of R&D | Command Information
>> > > 13655 Dulles Technology Drive, Suite 100 | Herndon, VA 20171
>> > > O: 703.561.5937 | M: 703.899.9663 | green@commandinformation.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com
>> [mailto:owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com
>> > > <mailto:owner-nav6tf@ipv6forum.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Cerveny
>> > > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:53 PM
>> > > To: Joya Subudhi; nav6tf@ipv6forum.com; moonv6@iol.unh.edu
>> > > Subject: Vista DNS behavior - Re: [nav6tf] IPv6 news - weekly
>> > > summary
>> > >
>> > > Does anyone have any experience with Vista beta?
>> > >
>> > > The two articles below about Vista and DNS melting the Internet
>> > > suggest that Vista will always make two DNS requests; one
>> for the A
>> > > record and the other for the AAAA record. While I might
>> expect this
>> > > to occur if Vista thinks it is connected to an operational IPv6
>> > > network, will Vista still do this if it doesn't have a globally
>> > > routable IPv6 address or any other indication that it is
>> connected to an IPv6-enabled network?
>> > >
>> > > Bill Cerveny
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:38:21 -0400, "Joya Subudhi"
>> > > <joya@subudhi.com>
>> > > said:
>> > > > IPv6 news - weekly summary
>> > > > Main News:
>> > > > Plan for cyberspace available in near future
>> > > > http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2237
>> > > <http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2237>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Other News:
>> > > > IPv6: The future is now
>> > > > http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2236
>> > > <http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2236>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Security:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Corporate and Products:
>> > > > Vista's role in Imminent Net Death overstated
>> > > > http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2240
>> > > <http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2240>
>> > > >
>> > > > Command Information Appoints Greg Sloan to Lead
>> Commercial Sector
>> > > > Business Development
>> > > > http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2239
>> > > <http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2239>
>> > > >
>> > > > Will Vista stall Net traffic?
>> > > > http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2238
>> > > <http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2238>
>> > > >
>> > > > Using the Network Diagnostic Tester
>> > > > http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2235
>> > > <http://www.ipv6tf.org/news/newsroom.php?id=2235>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>

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